Features | Interviews
The Sadies
By Braff's Beak | 25 August 2006
This interview almost didn't happen -- a combination of Sadies' bassist Sean Dean waking late, hungover from "jamming all night" at (Sadies' singer/guitarist) Travis Good's place, and a crippling exhaustion stemming from that.
But Dean, being the unnaturally kind bass player that he is, quickly became eager to discuss his past with Phleg Camp, the Sadies' recent release of In Concert, Vol. 1 (as well as plans for Vol. 2), their work with Neko Case, some forthcoming work with Ronnie Hawkins and Randy Bachman (The Guess Who, but also BTO), their soon-to-be-recorded new album with producer Gary Louris, and a lot about how privileged he feels to be a part of it all.
Oh, also: his resistance to the Hawks' kind of awesome but also fascinatingly insane "rock 'n roll boot camp," which inexplicably includes three months (!) worth of sleepovers, farm work and stories, lots of stories. This absolutely real boot camp is also rumoured to contain not a single note of music until the 90 days of work, somehow related to building his trust and/or breaking your will, is over. Dean doesn't say.
*****
CMG's Candice Osmond (CMG): Alright, so this new live album... how'd the idea for a retrospective concert come about?
The Sadies' Sean Dean (SD): Well, we had been planning to do it for a while and we had the idea of having a whole lot of guests. It seemed like a really good time; I guess we've been together ten years now, and... I mean, at the ten year point, its okay to make a live record. We had accumulated so many guests and new guests that wanted to be a part of it
CMG: Are there any plans to release it on DVD?
SD: Oh yeah, very much so. We've got it all shot, and we're just gonna take our time and do it right. We've got about eight cameras and we shot some film footage, mostly on digital. We're gonna chop it up soon but we didn't feel the need to rush the DVD out with the music, because we should try to make the music the most important thing.
CMG: Were there any drawbacks to pulling off a show with that many collaborators, trying to cover so many years of music?
SD: Drawbacks? No, not really... I mean, it was just so much fun. The only drawback is that I wish it could have kept goin', you know, like the Rolling Thunder tour with Dylan and stuff...
CMG: The Rolling Thunder Revue.
SD: Yeah! Like that... I wanted it to keep going for a week or two weeks, just take it on the road, and just document everything.
CMG: I can't even imagine what the backstage was like...
SD: Oh my god, it was crazy. Lots of fun, very crowded [laughs].
CMG: Is there anyone that you wanted at the shows, but couldn't get because of scheduling conflicts or whatever?
SD: Well, we were working on getting [R&B/rock/funk musician/songwriter] Andre Williams, 'cause we worked with him before in our career, early on. But he was... [pauses, sighs] he was at the Superbowl. Jon, he was working really hard -- Jon Spencer, that is -- to get him to come, but he couldn't. They're good friends; he was phoning all these different flights, all these different routes for him, to get in on the day of, or try to make it overnight, but... Andre was at the Superbowl. Maybe next time.
We want to make another record, Volume 2, we're gonna try to get all those people that we omitted. We want... well, I guess I can be a loudmouth and tell ya: we've been talking to Ronnie Hawkins. And Randy Bachman -- we've been writing songs with him. Those guys would be huge. Well, I mean, there's a lot of bands out there that I do like from the '70s and '80s on live records, and a bunch of people think that they're better on live records. For instance, the Band. There's just something about live records, its like an occasion. It can be less crafted and less pined over as far as overdubs go, but the spontaneity.. it's what some people really, really love.
CMG: You've worked with Steve Albini before on record, but what was his role in the live show?
SD: Well, he's the main engineer. He likes to be referred to as the engineer -- the person who runs all the recording machines, and makes sure everything's top quality and everything's smooth. I mean, as far as the producer goes, all the people that are involved are essentially the producers. Our band would be the head producers, and everyone else, because the producer's role has a lot to do with the taste and the quality of the sound -- the writing and the song craftsmanship, as well as the recording logistics. Steve tends to be a producer that is like that, and I remember from the first time I ever worked with him in a band called Phleg Camp. Basically we were more of a rock group, and we had all of our things rehearsed, everything down before we even met him, so he was just basically a tape operative, a tape op. So he would just press record and filter everything. He's an expert in that area, a technical whiz. He knows how to get everything as cleanly as possible. So yeah, it was good to work with him again.
CMG: [Blue Rodeo's] Greg Keeler says that you're his favorite band and even lets you record on his farm, in a barn. Does having such dedicated fans surprise or flatter you at all?
SD: It's really flattering... we tend to keep our head on our shoulders and not get too big for our britches. But it's flattering to have such professional and great musicians take us under their wings -- like Blue Rodeo, and the Good Brothers. Of course the Good Brothers situation with their sons is different because they grew up in a household where the music industry was at the breakfast table. But with people like Blue Rodeo and Neko Case, it's helped our career so much. And it's a huge responsibility to collaborate with people, you just wanna do such a good job. That's where we're able to shine, you know? We're just four guys from Toronto... it's real competitive, music, and it's the only thing that we ever really wanted to do, and badly. And we only have one chance, one song to do it, so we put every ounce of our days energy into that single moment. It's flattering to have such nice people work with us. I think they realize that we treat it very seriously, and we... we just love it.
CMG: You mentioned Neko Case -- what are her audiences like compared to the Sadies'? Is it a different kind of crowd?
SD: Yeah, totally. They're very, very nice... they tend to be very smart, and they don't drink very much. Once in a while they get real crazy and have a glass of wine. Our crowds are a little more rambunctious, they tend to drink a little more. But I think Neko's crowds are wonderful. They're glued to her, to every word she sings. But they're so hard to play for; you really have to be on your toes, be extra keen to what the sound is that Neko's trying to get, because they're smart and you just can't flub your way through it. It's a hugely different type of music, because it's more flowy, more feminine, more... frilly. You have to put yourself where she is, and [lightly sighs, concedingly] sound pretty.
CMG: When you tour with the Sadies, do you see a difference between American and Canadian audiences?
SD: I do, only because I've been touring since I got out of high school, and I see audiences everywhere as being different. But not so much different that you have to cater or do anything differently. With mannerisms, or in customs, there's a difference, but not too much. I think there's more a similarity than a difference. You always hear that Toronto audiences are more analytical and less giving to be spontaneous -- like loving a band so much your just like, "oh fuck, I have to dance, and I don't care who's watching me." Toronto audiences are real smart and self-conscious. So coming from Toronto, it's hard... people aren't just gonna give you the keys to your ears, you have to work really hard at it, be really good. You have to have something that's special to appeal to them. A lot of American bands say this to me about Toronto audiences; it's kind of a compliment to Toronto. I mean, a lot of bands wish that Toronto audiences would just go apeshit, but it's much harder there to make people move, to shake their booty [laughs].
CMG: What's the most memorable show you've ever played?
SD: Oh, I've played a bunch. I really have a good time with Heavy Trash [Jon Spencer's group with Matt Verta-Ray]. We played this one show in Pioneertown, near Joshua Tree in California, just outside of Los Angeles. It's basically a film set that was made to make Gene Autry films. It was in the middle of a desert, Graham Parsons used to just drink there all the time at this bar. It was a great night for the band; it felt like we were inside a rock 'n roll fairy tale or something [laughs]. But I've had so many good nights with the guys in the Sadies, and also with guests that we've taken on tour with us. It's just such a rich life that I have. I have so many great memories... I mean, traveling and getting paid to travel is great. You miss your home life, of course. I'm married now, too, so I really miss my wife, but she's cool. She just wants me to rock.
Oh, also, In Concert was really memorable because you play, and you get off stage and every face you look at is someone we worked with, or someone who's helped our career. It's just so overwhelming.
CMG: What about touring in general? Are there any drawbacks to touring? Would you do it more or less if you had the choice?
SD: Well, it seems like an impossible thing to do, playing every day and traveling. The energy that you have to put out just to go play for two hours every night, there's just so much preliminary stuff that you have to do. But ever since I started touring with my band out of high school, you know, you'd be hungover and way from your home, but you get in the van and go to another gig... I just knew that it was the life for me. You know, I hear that rumbling of the van, and I'm on the highway to another gig and I go, "thank god I'm working as a musician." It's just such a privilege, it's something that I've always known that I wanted to do. I didn't go around telling people, "hey you know, I'm gonna be a musician!" I just wanted it, so I went out and did it. I know I was meant to do it, and hopefully I don't suck.
CMG: Where did you play your first show?
SD: Well, as a kid, I played bass in church once. I played my high school. The first American show I ever played was with Phleg Camp in Aurora, Illinois. The first shows I ever did in a bar was the Soup Club in Toronto, which is now [Jeff] Healey's. I played parties in high school, and I played the Unionville Fair in Unionville, Ontario... a bunch of little stuff like that.
CMG: Was there any album or sideproject that was especially fun or fulfilling to make?
SD: They're all really special. But I'm real excited to hear the new Heavy Trash. We recorded about six or seven songs with them -- with Jon and Matt in Boston, and it sounds like a fuckin' tidal wave. It just sounds so good. There's six of us playing, and it's indescribable. It's like rockabilly with great rockabilly type singing from Jon, and it sounds like The Misfits. It's just so good, I'm so proud of it, and we're going to be doing some more recording and get that finished, pump that out.
I'm also looking forward to playin' with the Hawk [Ronnie Hawkins]; that''ll be a blast. And hopefully we won't have to go through the training camp of being with the Hawk, 'cause I don't know if you're aware of what he's like, but... he always has his bands live with him out in Peterborough on his farm, and its like rock 'n roll boot camp. It's like, fuck -- it sounds like a blast, but I'd just rather do shows, and know the songs. I mean, I'm 38, and I've been through rock 'n roll boot camp. I sound kind of jaded, but I just wanna come in and do the songs, and avoid the sleepover [laughs]. I mean, I'd love to hang around him and hear his wonderful stories, 'cause hes the most hilarious person on the planet. The things that come out of his mouth...
CMG: What about.. um, I'm only gonna ask you one more thing about Neko Case -- what's the writing process with her?
SD: It's pretty cool. She sometimes comes in with lyrics, or with whole songs, and sometimes we have songs and she sings over them. We're gonna write some more songs with her, coming up on [August] 25th. And we're doing the Conan O'Brien show on the 30th.
CMG: What are you listening to lately?
SD: I have a lot of records, so I make mix tapes. Right now I'm listening to a lot of the Band, and a lot of [Byrds' guitarist] Clarence White.
CMG: And you're recording a new album soon, right?
SD: We're recording with [the Jayhawks'] Gary Louris, he was on the live record. We're goin' to Spain in November, and he's gonna produce our new record. So we're gonna have a new studio record probably next year. We're really looking forward to that.
But Dean, being the unnaturally kind bass player that he is, quickly became eager to discuss his past with Phleg Camp, the Sadies' recent release of In Concert, Vol. 1 (as well as plans for Vol. 2), their work with Neko Case, some forthcoming work with Ronnie Hawkins and Randy Bachman (The Guess Who, but also BTO), their soon-to-be-recorded new album with producer Gary Louris, and a lot about how privileged he feels to be a part of it all.
Oh, also: his resistance to the Hawks' kind of awesome but also fascinatingly insane "rock 'n roll boot camp," which inexplicably includes three months (!) worth of sleepovers, farm work and stories, lots of stories. This absolutely real boot camp is also rumoured to contain not a single note of music until the 90 days of work, somehow related to building his trust and/or breaking your will, is over. Dean doesn't say.
*****
CMG's Candice Osmond (CMG): Alright, so this new live album... how'd the idea for a retrospective concert come about?
The Sadies' Sean Dean (SD): Well, we had been planning to do it for a while and we had the idea of having a whole lot of guests. It seemed like a really good time; I guess we've been together ten years now, and... I mean, at the ten year point, its okay to make a live record. We had accumulated so many guests and new guests that wanted to be a part of it
CMG: Are there any plans to release it on DVD?
SD: Oh yeah, very much so. We've got it all shot, and we're just gonna take our time and do it right. We've got about eight cameras and we shot some film footage, mostly on digital. We're gonna chop it up soon but we didn't feel the need to rush the DVD out with the music, because we should try to make the music the most important thing.
CMG: Were there any drawbacks to pulling off a show with that many collaborators, trying to cover so many years of music?
SD: Drawbacks? No, not really... I mean, it was just so much fun. The only drawback is that I wish it could have kept goin', you know, like the Rolling Thunder tour with Dylan and stuff...
CMG: The Rolling Thunder Revue.
SD: Yeah! Like that... I wanted it to keep going for a week or two weeks, just take it on the road, and just document everything.
CMG: I can't even imagine what the backstage was like...
SD: Oh my god, it was crazy. Lots of fun, very crowded [laughs].
CMG: Is there anyone that you wanted at the shows, but couldn't get because of scheduling conflicts or whatever?
SD: Well, we were working on getting [R&B/rock/funk musician/songwriter] Andre Williams, 'cause we worked with him before in our career, early on. But he was... [pauses, sighs] he was at the Superbowl. Jon, he was working really hard -- Jon Spencer, that is -- to get him to come, but he couldn't. They're good friends; he was phoning all these different flights, all these different routes for him, to get in on the day of, or try to make it overnight, but... Andre was at the Superbowl. Maybe next time.
We want to make another record, Volume 2, we're gonna try to get all those people that we omitted. We want... well, I guess I can be a loudmouth and tell ya: we've been talking to Ronnie Hawkins. And Randy Bachman -- we've been writing songs with him. Those guys would be huge. Well, I mean, there's a lot of bands out there that I do like from the '70s and '80s on live records, and a bunch of people think that they're better on live records. For instance, the Band. There's just something about live records, its like an occasion. It can be less crafted and less pined over as far as overdubs go, but the spontaneity.. it's what some people really, really love.
CMG: You've worked with Steve Albini before on record, but what was his role in the live show?
SD: Well, he's the main engineer. He likes to be referred to as the engineer -- the person who runs all the recording machines, and makes sure everything's top quality and everything's smooth. I mean, as far as the producer goes, all the people that are involved are essentially the producers. Our band would be the head producers, and everyone else, because the producer's role has a lot to do with the taste and the quality of the sound -- the writing and the song craftsmanship, as well as the recording logistics. Steve tends to be a producer that is like that, and I remember from the first time I ever worked with him in a band called Phleg Camp. Basically we were more of a rock group, and we had all of our things rehearsed, everything down before we even met him, so he was just basically a tape operative, a tape op. So he would just press record and filter everything. He's an expert in that area, a technical whiz. He knows how to get everything as cleanly as possible. So yeah, it was good to work with him again.
CMG: [Blue Rodeo's] Greg Keeler says that you're his favorite band and even lets you record on his farm, in a barn. Does having such dedicated fans surprise or flatter you at all?
SD: It's really flattering... we tend to keep our head on our shoulders and not get too big for our britches. But it's flattering to have such professional and great musicians take us under their wings -- like Blue Rodeo, and the Good Brothers. Of course the Good Brothers situation with their sons is different because they grew up in a household where the music industry was at the breakfast table. But with people like Blue Rodeo and Neko Case, it's helped our career so much. And it's a huge responsibility to collaborate with people, you just wanna do such a good job. That's where we're able to shine, you know? We're just four guys from Toronto... it's real competitive, music, and it's the only thing that we ever really wanted to do, and badly. And we only have one chance, one song to do it, so we put every ounce of our days energy into that single moment. It's flattering to have such nice people work with us. I think they realize that we treat it very seriously, and we... we just love it.
CMG: You mentioned Neko Case -- what are her audiences like compared to the Sadies'? Is it a different kind of crowd?
SD: Yeah, totally. They're very, very nice... they tend to be very smart, and they don't drink very much. Once in a while they get real crazy and have a glass of wine. Our crowds are a little more rambunctious, they tend to drink a little more. But I think Neko's crowds are wonderful. They're glued to her, to every word she sings. But they're so hard to play for; you really have to be on your toes, be extra keen to what the sound is that Neko's trying to get, because they're smart and you just can't flub your way through it. It's a hugely different type of music, because it's more flowy, more feminine, more... frilly. You have to put yourself where she is, and [lightly sighs, concedingly] sound pretty.
CMG: When you tour with the Sadies, do you see a difference between American and Canadian audiences?
SD: I do, only because I've been touring since I got out of high school, and I see audiences everywhere as being different. But not so much different that you have to cater or do anything differently. With mannerisms, or in customs, there's a difference, but not too much. I think there's more a similarity than a difference. You always hear that Toronto audiences are more analytical and less giving to be spontaneous -- like loving a band so much your just like, "oh fuck, I have to dance, and I don't care who's watching me." Toronto audiences are real smart and self-conscious. So coming from Toronto, it's hard... people aren't just gonna give you the keys to your ears, you have to work really hard at it, be really good. You have to have something that's special to appeal to them. A lot of American bands say this to me about Toronto audiences; it's kind of a compliment to Toronto. I mean, a lot of bands wish that Toronto audiences would just go apeshit, but it's much harder there to make people move, to shake their booty [laughs].
CMG: What's the most memorable show you've ever played?
SD: Oh, I've played a bunch. I really have a good time with Heavy Trash [Jon Spencer's group with Matt Verta-Ray]. We played this one show in Pioneertown, near Joshua Tree in California, just outside of Los Angeles. It's basically a film set that was made to make Gene Autry films. It was in the middle of a desert, Graham Parsons used to just drink there all the time at this bar. It was a great night for the band; it felt like we were inside a rock 'n roll fairy tale or something [laughs]. But I've had so many good nights with the guys in the Sadies, and also with guests that we've taken on tour with us. It's just such a rich life that I have. I have so many great memories... I mean, traveling and getting paid to travel is great. You miss your home life, of course. I'm married now, too, so I really miss my wife, but she's cool. She just wants me to rock.
Oh, also, In Concert was really memorable because you play, and you get off stage and every face you look at is someone we worked with, or someone who's helped our career. It's just so overwhelming.
CMG: What about touring in general? Are there any drawbacks to touring? Would you do it more or less if you had the choice?
SD: Well, it seems like an impossible thing to do, playing every day and traveling. The energy that you have to put out just to go play for two hours every night, there's just so much preliminary stuff that you have to do. But ever since I started touring with my band out of high school, you know, you'd be hungover and way from your home, but you get in the van and go to another gig... I just knew that it was the life for me. You know, I hear that rumbling of the van, and I'm on the highway to another gig and I go, "thank god I'm working as a musician." It's just such a privilege, it's something that I've always known that I wanted to do. I didn't go around telling people, "hey you know, I'm gonna be a musician!" I just wanted it, so I went out and did it. I know I was meant to do it, and hopefully I don't suck.
CMG: Where did you play your first show?
SD: Well, as a kid, I played bass in church once. I played my high school. The first American show I ever played was with Phleg Camp in Aurora, Illinois. The first shows I ever did in a bar was the Soup Club in Toronto, which is now [Jeff] Healey's. I played parties in high school, and I played the Unionville Fair in Unionville, Ontario... a bunch of little stuff like that.
CMG: Was there any album or sideproject that was especially fun or fulfilling to make?
SD: They're all really special. But I'm real excited to hear the new Heavy Trash. We recorded about six or seven songs with them -- with Jon and Matt in Boston, and it sounds like a fuckin' tidal wave. It just sounds so good. There's six of us playing, and it's indescribable. It's like rockabilly with great rockabilly type singing from Jon, and it sounds like The Misfits. It's just so good, I'm so proud of it, and we're going to be doing some more recording and get that finished, pump that out.
I'm also looking forward to playin' with the Hawk [Ronnie Hawkins]; that''ll be a blast. And hopefully we won't have to go through the training camp of being with the Hawk, 'cause I don't know if you're aware of what he's like, but... he always has his bands live with him out in Peterborough on his farm, and its like rock 'n roll boot camp. It's like, fuck -- it sounds like a blast, but I'd just rather do shows, and know the songs. I mean, I'm 38, and I've been through rock 'n roll boot camp. I sound kind of jaded, but I just wanna come in and do the songs, and avoid the sleepover [laughs]. I mean, I'd love to hang around him and hear his wonderful stories, 'cause hes the most hilarious person on the planet. The things that come out of his mouth...
CMG: What about.. um, I'm only gonna ask you one more thing about Neko Case -- what's the writing process with her?
SD: It's pretty cool. She sometimes comes in with lyrics, or with whole songs, and sometimes we have songs and she sings over them. We're gonna write some more songs with her, coming up on [August] 25th. And we're doing the Conan O'Brien show on the 30th.
CMG: What are you listening to lately?
SD: I have a lot of records, so I make mix tapes. Right now I'm listening to a lot of the Band, and a lot of [Byrds' guitarist] Clarence White.
CMG: And you're recording a new album soon, right?
SD: We're recording with [the Jayhawks'] Gary Louris, he was on the live record. We're goin' to Spain in November, and he's gonna produce our new record. So we're gonna have a new studio record probably next year. We're really looking forward to that.